# How Much Adaptivity Is Enough? PandaDoc's Journey with Large-Scale Scrum (LeSS)

> Video: how PandaDoc grew to 48 product and engineering teams, evolving its LeSS design from early growth to hypergrowth. How much adaptivity is enough?

- Author: Denis Salnikov, Alena Hlekava
- Published: 2025-05-19 (updated 2025-05-19)
- Type: case study · industry: SaaS
- Categories: Case Studies
- Canonical: https://www.orgtopologies.com/post/how-much-adaptivity-is-enough-pandadoc-s-journey-with-large-scale-scrum-less-by-denis-salnikov-an
- Audio: https://www.orgtopologies.com/audio/post/how-much-adaptivity-is-enough-pandadoc-s-journey-with-large-scale-scrum-less-by-denis-salnikov-an/male.mp3 · https://www.orgtopologies.com/audio/post/how-much-adaptivity-is-enough-pandadoc-s-journey-with-large-scale-scrum-less-by-denis-salnikov-an/female.mp3

This video details PandaDoc's experience evolving its organizational design using the Large-Scale Scrum (LeSS) framework. Denis Salnikov, Head of Agile Practices at PandaDoc, discusses the company's growth, the challenges faced, and the adaptations made along the way.

```youtube
47ZQfZlAVh8
```

**Key Takeaways:**

- **Adapting, Not Just Implementing:** PandaDoc focused on tailoring the organizational design to its specific needs rather than strictly implementing a framework \[[01:08](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=68)\].
- **Company Growth:** Founded in 2011 to automate sales quotes \[[03:38](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=218)\], PandaDoc achieved unicorn status with a $1 billion valuation by 2021 \[[04:05](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=245)\]. As of the talk, the company has over 800 employees globally, with 350 in product and engineering across 48 teams \[[04:16](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=256)\].
- **Evolution of Organizational Design:**
    - **Early 2021 (Early Growth):** Implemented LeSS Huge, introducing requirement areas focused on customer profiles. Teams were considered the core organizational unit, emphasizing long-lived, stable teams \[[07:15](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=435)\]. The structure included four key requirement areas and a platform requirement area \[[08:29](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=509)\].
    - **Late 2022 (Hypergrowth):** With 45 teams, managing the product backlog became challenging for the CTO \[[10:19](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=619)\]. The product owner's role shifted to defining investments in requirement areas \[[10:42](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=642)\]. An incubation area for new product ideas was introduced \[[11:07](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=667)\]. The company also prioritized employee safety by relocating staff from Belarus and Ukraine and shifted to a remote-first work model \[[12:06](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=726), [13:19](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=799)\].
    - **Maturation Stage:** The company hypothesized that different requirement areas might have different optimization goals \[[16:51](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1011)\]. They aimed to separate structures from people for easier team movement and reduced the number of requirement areas to three \[[17:13](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1033), [17:28](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1048)\]. A key focus became addressing accumulated system fatigue within the application and organization \[[17:44](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1064)\]. Currently, there are three requirement areas, each with distinct optimization goals \[[20:10](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1210)\].
- **Future Endeavors:** PandaDoc is experimenting to measure and understand the optimal level of adaptivity \[[20:58](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1258)\] and is developing a multi-app experience for its customers \[[21:19](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1279)\].
- **Q&A Highlights:** The discussion touched upon measuring adaptivity, separating structures from people, and managing numerous teams with a single product owner \[[21:37](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47ZQfZlAVh8&t=1297)\].

In essence, the video offers an in-depth look at PandaDoc's journey with LeSS, emphasizing the adaptation required during growth and the continuous efforts to optimize their organizational system.

## Elevating Katas in this case

- Applied: [Re-Centering Product Ownership on Strategy and Outcomes](https://www.orgtopologies.com/elevating-katas#re-centering-product-ownership-on-strategy-and-outcomes). Product owner moved from backlog management to steering investment across areas.
- Applied: [Forming a Team-of-Teams](https://www.orgtopologies.com/elevating-katas#forming-a-team-of-teams). Teams grouped into customer-focused requirement areas within one product.
- Applied: [Organizing Around Products, Not Projects](https://www.orgtopologies.com/elevating-katas#organizing-around-products-not-projects). Long-lived stable teams as the core organizational unit.

The full catalog: https://www.orgtopologies.com/elevating-katas.md